IN CONVERSATION WITH JOSEPHINE ZWAAN AND EVA VAN MANEN
interview by NIA TOPALOVA
Zalando and Pretty Girls Like Trap Music (PGLTM) have teamed up to launch Our Space to Be, a bold campaign that places communities and individuals at the forefront, celebrating pioneers creating more inclusive and safer spaces for women+. This initiative honours changemakers who are reshaping music production, breaking, and football culture.
The event that took place on International Women's Day, March 8, in Amsterdam, aimed to inspire and empower women+ to embrace their authentic selves. Josephine Zwaan & Eva van Manen, co-founders of rosetta., the first platform in the Netherlands dedicated to female and non-binary music producers, are at the heart of this movement, advocating for greater representation in the music industry.
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Josephine, you started your career as a singer-songwriter and then shifted to your darker rap alter-ego, SUZOOKI SWIFT. What sparked that transformation, and how does your alter-ego represent different sides of your creative identity?
It all started at a music camp where I was doing sessions with other musicians. We were conceptualizing the idea of rapping in different characters, particularly in a dangerous villain persona. After we recorded the track, I started considering continuing this as an artist identity and exploring what it means to embody that character. It became an empowering identity, allowing me to be many things I can’t be as a woman in daily life. I consciously chose not to use any gendered language in the lyrics, creating a space where I don’t see myself as a female persona but instead can embody all of these masculine traits.
Eva, your music often explores political and social themes, blending personal narratives with broader societal issues. How do you balance personal expression with the larger social themes you're tackling in your music?
As a queer woman, I’ve experienced that when you step into a room, you’re already presenting a certain identity and having to navigate sociological and, in a way, political structures. I try to make every story I tell personal, connecting with the audience by merging this personal and political narrative—because the personal is always political.
As co-founders of rosetta., you've created a platform for female and non-binary music producers. What were the key moments or challenges that led you to start rosetta., and how has the platform evolved since its founding in 2020?
There were no challenges in finding women who wanted to be part of this collective. The challenge, however, was that when you’re doing something activist-driven or putting yourself out there to create a space, people often assume you’re doing it for free. We started during the Covid times, so much of it was online, which definitely posed its own challenges. The good kind of challenge, though, was creating a space where being different is the norm.
There’s so much that rosetta. could do, and so much still needs to happen. There’s the public-facing aspect—being part of debates, speaking out—but there’s also the focus on creating a very intimate community.
Josephine, your research in philosophy focuses on a decolonial approach to electronic music production, drawing from African philosophy. Could you explain how your academic work influences your creative process and how you integrate these insights into your music?
Actually, my creative experience is the cause and inspiration of my academic work, especially when it comes to music production. The way I experience production is very different from what I encountered in the past. It’s been a process of trying to make sense of how I approach music production and how that differs from the general ways it’s discussed. I’ve spent a lot of time reflecting on and analysing my process and experience.
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Eva, your third album is set to release soon. How has your journey as an artist evolved since you first started working on this project, and what can fans expect from the new album in terms of sound and themes?
The theme is about the ground we stand on and the shifting boundaries in the world due to political and environmental issues. Over the past few years, I’ve developed as both an artist and a poet, releasing my first poetry book in 2021. Now, I’m combining spoken word with pop music on my new album. With rosetta., we’ve created a vision for narrative music production, helping people develop their own sound while also exploring more extreme versions of themselves.
Zalando and Pretty Girls Like Trap Music (PGLTM) launched ‘Our Space to Be’. This project is centred around self-expression and connection. How do you envision such spaces for creative freedom and expression shaping the future of nightlife and artistic communities?
There’s a lot of strength in coming together and initiating these communities and platforms. This campaign highlights women who are being courageous, creating spaces, movements, and opportunities for other women to step into. I think it’s exciting to unite across disciplines and fields.
When we were doing the shoot with Zalando, seeing people from the platforms take initiative made me realise that this could lead to more collaboration—working together with clubs and bringing producers into spaces where the music truly comes to life.
How do you both envision the future of rosetta., and what are your goals for impacting the next generation of music creators, particularly those from underrepresented backgrounds?
We want to keep this project accessible, which is why securing sponsorships and maintaining visibility is essential. There’s a broad network of people supporting this initiative, allowing us to create a space for those from less privileged backgrounds. Our dream is to establish a physical space—a studio built by this collective of producers, each with their own studio within the building. This is the vision we’re working toward, and it’s one we’ve placed on our vision board.
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